7 Comments

  1. Hi! I thought I left a comment a few days ago, but I may not have submitted it. Your posts are very helpful! I did my undergrad in classical languages thirty years ago, and my Latin grammar is rusty. I’m working on compiling an answer key/teachers manual for a particular curriculum and every once in a while my translations clash with the answer key from the publisher.

    Eos certiores fecit quis se secutus esset.

    I have “He informed them who had followed *him.*”
    The answer key has “He informed them who had followed *them.*”

    Since the subject of the main clause is *he,* I assume the reflexive in the indirect question refers back to “he.” I’m not sure how the reflexive pronoun can have the antecedent *they* since *they* is the subject of neither the main clause nor the indirect question. Am I totally misunderstanding reflexives?

    1. Hi Sarah, sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to you! I can see on the back end that you did submit another comment but I hadn’t had a chance to approve it. Anyway, to answer your question: I agree with your translation and analysis. The answer key is wrong.

      In subordinate clauses such as “quis sē secūtus esset”, there are two possible uses of reflexives: 1) direct (where the reflexive refers to the subject of the subordinate clause) and 2) indirect (where the reflexive refers to the subject of the main clause). In this case, “sē” could refer back to EITHER “quis” (direct reflexive) OR the implied subject of “fēcit” (indirect reflexive).

      So, as you say, *them* should not be an option for “sē” in this instance. I believe what is happening in your answer key is that someone has confused the role of reflexives and assumed that “sē” can refer to “eōs,” the direct object in the main clause. This does not make sense grammatically.

      “He informed them who had followed *them*” would need to be “Eōs certiōrēs fēcit quis *eōs* secūtus esset.” As the sentence stands, “sē” most logically refers to *him*, i.e. the speaker in the main clause.

      I hope this helps! I think you have a great understanding of reflexives 🙂

  2. Salve Livia! I have a question about the use of pronouns in what we call in England “indirect commands.”

    If in the subjunctive clause after “ut” you want to refer back to the subject of the main clause, should you use a reflexive pronoun?

    For example:

    “Siculi Caecilium rogaverunt ut se permitteret bona sua defendere per eum cuius fiducia est sibi cognita.”

    Would the above be correct? Or would “se” here refer to Caecilius, the subject of the subordinate clause? It is meant to render something like:

    “The Sicilians asked Caecilius to allow them to defend their property through him whose faith was known to them.”

    Gratias tibi ago!

    RG

  3. PS Ignosce mihi! I suppose it should be “cuius fiducia esset sibi cognita.” RG

    1. Hi RG, this is a tough question. Reflexives in subordinate clauses can be quite confusing, and there is some inherent ambiguity. Basically, the reflexive can refer back to the subject of the MAIN verb if the subordinate clause “represents something in the mind of that subject” (to quote Bradley’s Arnold, paragraph 349).

      Such clauses include indirect commands, since the main subject has the action that they are commanding “in their mind”. So, in the case of the sentence that you have proposed, the reflexive can technically refer either to the Sicilians or to Caecilius. In this context, it makes more sense for the Sicilians to be referenced.

      Two quick notes. 1) The verb *permittō* takes the dative of the person being permitted, so you would want to say “ut SIBI permitteret”. 2) Since “cuius” introduces a relative clause, a type of clause that does NOT count as something “in the mind of the main subject”, you need to use “eīs” and not “sibi” within that clause. So, “cuius fiducia esset eis cognita.”

  4. This might be a basic question but I’m new. Is it just reflexive PERSONAL pronouns which don’t have nominative? I could imagine something like ‘he is his own (friend)’ as a POSSESSIVE pronoun/adjective would be nominative due to the linking verb.

    P.S. (sorry for the shouty capslocks, just wanted to make it super obvious what I was talking about)

    1. Excellent question, Kerry! You are on the right track. Basically, reflexive pronouns (suī, meī, tuī, etc.) don’t have a nominative, but reflexive adjectives (suus, a, um, meus, a, um, tuus, a, um, etc.) can be used in the nominative in situations such as the one you give.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

I accept the Privacy Policy